Ezra Klein interviews 89-year-old Buddhist nun Pema Chödrön in a new episode of The Ezra Klein Show, exploring her teachings on embracing discomfort rather than avoiding it. Chödrön, author of beloved books including "When Things Fall Apart" and "Comfortable With Uncertainty," discusses her latest work "Another Kind of Freedom." Klein describes her writings as the most helpful resource for developing an honest relationship with uncertainty, pain, and suffering.

Chödrön's central teaching challenges the instinct to eliminate discomfort: the Buddhist approach is that the only way out is through. Rather than trying to change outer circumstances, she advocates becoming intimate with what those circumstances trigger physically in the body. She encourages practitioners to locate sensations—often a contraction in the solar plexus—and send unconditional warmth toward them instead of attempting to eradicate the feeling.

The conversation addresses practical application, particularly in emotionally charged situations like conflict with loved ones. Chödrön advises pausing, letting go of the mental storyline, and directing attention inward to where pain manifests physically. Her framework offers readers a method for working with difficult emotions rather than being overwhelmed by them.